Aired July 24, 2009 – 20:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MIKE BROOKS, GUEST HOST: Breaking news tonight. The investigation into the sudden death of Michael Jackson intensifies, the death-slash- manslaughter investigation closing in on Jackson`s private doctor, that doctor with Jackson the day the music superstar collapses at his Bel-Air mansion.
Tonight, we have the search warrants revealing what the DEA, LAPD and Houston police seized during two surprise raids, one at the doctor`s Houston medical clinic, the second search warrant at the doctor`s self- storage unit, investigators seizing computer hard drives, FedEx receipts, e-mails, a Rolodex and two vials of drugs. We also learn Jackson`s private doctor was suspended from a Houston hospital. Why?
And as the legal battle heats up over Jackson`s three children and his entire empire, we learn estate lawyers recover over $5 million in cash and property. But will grandmother Katherine and Jackson`s three children see any of this money?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michael Jackson`s life at the end was being controlled and manipulated.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have a personal doctor here with him, sir.
911 OPERATOR: Oh, you have a doctor there?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: New details today on what detectives seized from the office of Michael Jackson`s doctor, who was the target of a manslaughter investigation.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A second search warrant was also served, not at the clinic but at a private storage unit belonging to Dr. Conrad Murray. Both warrants say they are seeking information and evidence of the offense of manslaughter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tonight, we know exactly what they found.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A Rolodex card with FedEx information, which could mean they are trying to track if drugs were FedExed out of state possibly, what drugs and who they may have been sent to. Also, they took personal e-mails and some drugs, including one vial of phentermine (ph), which turns out is a weight loss drug, and one vial of an clonazepam (ph), which is used to reduce anxiety, and in some cases to sleep.
CHERILYN LEE, MICHAEL JACKSON`S FORMER NURSE: He just wanted to sleep. He had insomnia. He wanted to have a good eight hours sleep.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At Dr. Murray`s storage unit, the search warrant says detectives seized, among other things, IRS documents, a suspension notice from Doctors Hospital, two hard drives, a Texas Department of Public Safety registration for controlled substances. They may interview him a third time as early as next week.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is now clear there is a very real possibility that Michael Jackson`s death could be ruled a homicide.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROOKS: Good evening. I`m Mike Brooks, in for Nancy Grace. The investigation into the sudden death of music superstar Michael Jackson intensifies.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Agents from the DEA executing a search warrant at Dr. Conrad Murray`s Houston clinic. Then Murray`s lawyers released a bombshell, a statement confirming that a potential case of manslaughter is being built against the doctor who was with Michael Jackson when he died.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s not breathing, sir.
911 OPERATOR: OK. And he`s not conscious, either. He`s not breathing…
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, he`s not conscious, sir.
911 OPERATOR: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Court documents are revealing Michael Jackson`s personal physician, Dr. Conrad Murray, is now the focus of a manslaughter investigation in Jackson`s death. The documents show samples of a weight loss drug, also a muscle relaxant. These were among the items taken from Dr. Murray`s Houston clinic.
JOE JACKSON, MICHAEL JACKSON`S FATHER: When you take a doctor and stick him in a room and the doctor gives him something to make him rest and then he don`t wake up no more, something is wrong there.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two search warrants filed in Houston related to Dr. Conrad Murray. One was served on his medical clinic, the other on a storage unit he has in the Houston area. There were homicide detectives and federal drug agents taking part in these searches.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Court documents show they took 27 tablets of the prescription-strength appetite suppressant phentermine, one tablet of an anti-anxiety pill, also Rolodex cards and a computer. And from a storage unit belonging to Dr. Conrad Murray, they took documents and hard drives.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And it`s looking more and more likely that criminal charges could be next.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re going to see that they have toxicology reports and they probably have other corroborating evidence that Michael Jackson had access to illegal prescription drugs.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where it`s gross or reckless conduct, it crosses the line into criminality.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROOKS: Good evening. I`m Mike Brooks, in for Nancy Grace. Well, folks, we have the two search warrants, the returns of the one from his office in Houston and the other one from his self-storage unit where, after they found a receipt in his office, then they went there and got more evidence.
I want to go straight out to Tom O`Neil joining us from New York. He`s senior editor for “In Touch Weekly.” Tom, tell us — tell us what was found in these warrants.
TOM O`NEIL, “IN TOUCH WEEKLY”: Well, the most significant thing in the warrants is this language here, Mike. They were searching for, quote, “evidence of the offense of manslaughter that tend to show that Dr. Conrad Murray committed said criminal offense.” Now, this is the first legal document that we have that links the charge of manslaughter to this doctor. But we don`t have a cause of death yet. We don`t — he`s not named as a suspect. So this is really relevant.
There`s something else that was found in both places, the storage bin and the office, which is extremely significant, if a report from TMZ proves out to be true. And that is there were two e-mails to a woman named Stacie Howe. There was correspondence to this woman. Well, reportedly, she was the manager of Dr. Arnold Klein`s office, the dermatologist. This suggests a potential linkage between these doctors.
BROOKS: Well, you know, and we talk about Arnold Klein, too. Ken Baker joining us from Los Angeles. He`s executive news editor for E! Now, we`ve talked about some aliases. What do we know about the aliases that are in some of Dr. Klein`s files?
KEN BAKER, E!: Well, we don`t know about those. But you know, something that`s interesting — just to go back on what Tom said, is that it`s interesting to see what they seized, of course, but what they did not seize was propofol, the anesthesia that we believe he was under at the time of his death, that probably did cause his cardiac arrest. They didn`t find that.
So in other words, there wasn`t perhaps this smoking gun. We`ve never been told that they found propofol in any of these doctors` offices. Now, that`s not to say that there had been some there and it somehow mysteriously disappeared. We don`t have all the information. But it is a conspicuous absence, if you look at it. And I have the list here. They did not find propofol, and that has been described as the veritable smoking gun in this case.
BROOKS: Exactly. You know, there`s — nothing`s mentioned in the affidavit for the search warrant or in the return of the search warrant with propofol. And that`s all we`ve been hearing about, you know, for the last number of weeks, that he was abusing that.
But I want to go out to Natisha Lance, producer of the NANCY GRACE show, who has covering this from the very beginning. Natisha, was there propofol or have we heard — you`ve spent a lot of time out there. Have — was there any propofol found in the room where Michael Jackson died?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Actually, we have heard many reports that there was Diprivan that was found at Michael Jackson`s room when police officers went in there. There were also lots of medical labels that were missing from a lot of these prescription bottles that were in Michael Jackson`s room. So the doctors (SIC) had to go back and verify and see where these were coming from.
But one of the things also that was found in Dr. Murray`s, when they seized items, they were looking into his FedEx account there. And one of the things that has been mentioned many times before is that Michael Jackson was going — he had this very nomadic lifestyle. So if he was getting this drug, Diprivan, it is possible that Dr. Murray could have been sending it through this FedEx account to Michael Jackson wherever he was in the world.
BROOKS: You know, that`s an interesting point. You know, was he sending it somewhere?
But I want to go out to Howard Oliver. He`s former deputy medical director (SIC) and forensic pathologist, joining us from Los Angeles. Doctor, if there was propofol in the room when he died, usually, on those vials, aren`t there a lot number, all kinds of other numbers, where they can trace it back to at least start a beginning of an investigation to find out where and when it was found and then maybe who took this?
HOWARD OLIVER, FORMER DEPUTY MEDICAL EXAMINER/FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Yes, there always is.
BROOKS: Now, the two drugs that were found there, tell us about those, the two — of the vials they took.
OLIVER: Those are two medications that you would commonly find in a doctor`s office. The phentermine is simply an appetite suppressant. And the other drug belongs to the oxazepam (ph) family. It`s an anti-anxiety drug. But like I say, this was — these are drugs that you would normally find in most doctors` offices.
BROOKS: Now, we have not heard anything from the toxicology reports. Realistically, how long would it take for the toxicology reports to come back from the coroner`s office?
OLIVER: Realistically, it would take less than two weeks to get those results back.
BROOKS: So you, as a former medical examiner — would you say that they are just holding off right now on the results, waiting for the results of this death investigation-slash-manslaughter investigation?
OLIVER: Yes, they are holding off until they get all the information together.
BROOKS: I want to unleash the attorneys right now. Joining us from Chicago, Jennifer Smetters (ph), family law attorney and child advocate, from San Francisco, noted defense attorney Dan Horowitz, and from New York, Peter Schaffer, known defense attorney — renowned defense attorney, I should say.
Now, guys, I find it unusual, if this is a death investigation, Dan, to have in these search warrants the mention of manslaughter. Don`t you?
DANIEL HOROWITZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It`s very strange, Mike. And there`s some dangers in specifying only one crime when you`re looking for evidence because it gives the police too much discretion. What`s evidence of manslaughter? A judge is supposed to tell the cops, You can look for these specific items, and not give them broad discretion. It could lead to suppression. And it`s also tipping the hand, I think, Mike, that they know that this doctor is going to be charged with manslaughter and they`re just wrapping up right now.
BROOKS: That`s what it seems to me, too, because to get one of these and have a judge sign a search warrant, you need probable cause, which, as I was a rookie, one of the first things they taught me in the police academy, probable cause is a set of facts or circumstances that would lead a reasonable and prudent officer or investigator to believe that a crime has been committed, is being committed or is about to be committed. Do you agree with that, Peter?
PETER SCHAFFER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think you do. But we don`t know what`s in the search warrant affidavit. You see the search warrant itself, but the affidavit`s the facts, and those are probably sealed. I don`t think that you need to have that much evidence to get a search warrant signed. You know, especially, these officers come out from L.A. and go to a Texas judge, I think that he`s going to sign it based on the circumstances. He gets — he or she gets to be part of this national case. I`m not so impressed either with the investigation in Houston or what was recovered there.
BROOKS: Why not? Why — what do you mean, you`re not impressed? I think right now, so far, LAPD and the coroner`s office and DEA, they`re holding things pretty close to the vest. But you know, having been a former investigator myself on both the local and federal side, you know, it`s not unusual to go to another state and ask Houston to go ahead and do a search warrant in conjunction, as it says, with LAPD and DEA.
SCHAFFER: It`s not. But what are the DEA doing, going in on an investigation like this? This is, you know, unlikely to be a federal crime. I mean you have millions of dollars of drugs being smuggled over the Texas border from Mexico, and they`re taking DEA agents? It`s because this is Michael Jackson. This is national news.
BROOKS: No, I…
SCHAFFER: And everybody wants a piece of it.
BROOKS: No. I disagree with you. There`s been other notable celebrities — you know, Heath Ledger — where DEA took a look at this, along with NYPD. And why? Because, number one, DEA — what do they regulate? They regulate doctors writing prescriptions. Every prescription that you get at a doctor`s office has a DEA number.
We`ll talk a little bit more about this when we come back. And we`re taking your calls live.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s the home that Michael Jackson wanted, but at the time, even he couldn`t afford. According to his Las Vegas realtor, Zar Zangani (ph), this 10-acre walled estate was to be Michael Jackson`s Vegas wonderland.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the only house I showed Michael out of probably 10 or a dozen where he came outside. And he came outside with no umbrella, no mask on, just came out here with the kids to see the grounds of the property.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Instead, Zangani placed Jackson and his family in this leased home. It was not up to par, says Zangani, but Jackson was building a life in Las Vegas and also trying to build back his wealth.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know that Michael really liked the idea of being able to perform in one location night after night. He loved the fact that the kids could actually have a place to call home and not move around with him, since they`re always going everywhere with him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The estate is filled with quirky appeal — secret tunnels leading to a gun range Jackson wanted to turn into a music studio, a barber chair in the master bath, a full gym, theater room, and a 20-car garage where he and his family could load into and out of cars out of view.
At the time, just back from his self-exile in Bahrain and Ireland, Jackson simply couldn`t afford the $22 million to $25 million pricetag. Zangani says he believes the concert tour would have been Michael Jackson`s pathway back to this house, a permanent show in Las Vegas, and a new retreat he would have called Wonderland.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROOKS: I`m Mike Brooks, in for Nancy Grace. Well, the investigation intensifies into the death of Michael Jackson. Was it manslaughter? Was it homicide? Was it accidental overdose? We don`t know.
And we`re taking your calls live. Out to the phones. Marsha from Oklahoma, thanks for joining us.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Mike.
BROOKS: Hi, Marsha.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, did the DEA and/or the LAPD raid Dr. Murray`s Las Vegas office at the same time that they did the Houston office?
BROOKS: Out to Natisha Lance, NANCY GRACE producer. Natisha, did they search any properties in Las Vegas?
LANCE: You know, we don`t have a lot of information on that, but we did have a CNN reporter who was out there, and he said that it looked like the Las Vegas office had been completely shut down. There was a drape over the window. There was also a note on the door that said to contact the building manager. So it doesn`t seem like that Las Vegas office is still in business.
BROOKS: Now, Natisha, how much do we know about Dr. Murray? And how long has he known Michael Jackson? And what was their first contact?
LANCE: We know that he`s a cardiologist. We know that he met Michael Jackson back in 2006, providing care for one of Michael Jackson`s children. And at that time, Michael Jackson apparently started referring to Dr. Murray for medical treatment, as well as they had a friendship, according to Conrad Murray`s PR spokesperson.
But then he was also signed on — once Michael Jackson signed on to do this tour with AEG, he was going to be his personal physician for that. He apparently conducted this very long, extensive physical that Michael Jackson underwent for that, getting him ready for this. And he was on call for Michael Jackson during his last hours, as well.
BROOKS: Now, Ken Baker, wasn`t — didn`t he ask initially for some exorbitant amount, like a million dollars a month?
BAKER: It was reported actually in a “Rolling Stone” article that he had asked for a million dollars a month. I can`t confirm that, but what was confirmed to AEG to us was that he was on a salary of $150,000 a month.
BROOKS: Whoa, whoa!
BAKER: And we looked into the past — I`m sorry?
BROOKS: One hundred and fifty thousand dollars a month?
BAKER: Yes. Not a bad gig. And what I was going to say is that not a bad gig for someone who actually — we looked at some records. He has had some financial issues. He did lose some civil cases. There were some judgments against him. There were liens put on his property. He wasn`t necessarily in the best financial health when he signed on. So he had a real incentive to make sure that Michael Jackson was kept in good health, apparently, so he would have a job.
BROOKS: Ya think? But Tom O`Neil, didn`t Michael Jackson step up and say, Hey, I need a full-time doctor because I`m — I`m — you know, I`m your money maker. I`m the rain maker. You`re getting money because of me.
O`NEIL: Yes. Obviously, Michael was in such good-bad — you know, good-bad health, alternating all the time. He needed a full-time physician there, and he needed somebody who he could trust and so somebody who he entrusted his children to, as Natisha was saying, back in 2006, when he met this man, they formed a bond that turned out to be very valuable.
BROOKS: I want to go out to Brian Oxman joining us from Los Angeles. He`s a former Jackson family attorney and host of “Insight” on Newsradio KLAA. Thanks for being with us.
BRIAN OXMAN, FORMER JACKSON FAMILY ATTORNEY: You betcha, Mike.
BROOKS: So what is the family saying? Now we found out what`s in — what was seized from the two locations, what are the Jackson family and his inner circle saying about this?
OXMAN: They`re being very circumspect as to what they think about the investigation. They are very anxious to find out its details, but they`re also recognizing this is going to be long. It`s going to be meticulous, very tedious. So they`re not jumping to any conclusions. And they`re urging everyone, Stay the course here. Let law enforcement do its job. It`s going to do a good job. And thus far, this family says A-plus to Bill Bratton, who is the chief of LAPD, and A-plus to Jerry Brown, who is making all the connections and connecting all the dots.
BROOKS: Yes, you know, and I`m sorry Peter Schaffer, but I`m in agreement with Mr. Oxman. I say A-plus to Chief Bratton and his staff also in conducting this investigation.
But folks, don`t go away. We`ve got plenty more. We`re going to talk about what exactly was in these warrants, and we`ll be taking your calls live.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: More than 1,500 miles from where Michael Jackson took his last breath, a painstaking search for clues. Without warning, robbery-homicide detectives from Los Angeles, Houston police and federal drug agents raided the office of Dr. Conrad Murray, Jackson`s personal physician, who was at his house the day he died. His lawyers said investigators were authorized to, quote, “search for and seize items, including documents, they believed constituted evidence of the offense of manslaughter.” That`s the first time the word “manslaughter” has been used by anyone closely connected to the case.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROOKS: I`m Mike Brooks, in for Nancy Grace. Well, they said — the attorney for Dr. Conrad Murray said that he and his client were going along and helping law enforcement in their investigation. But were they really? Why did they have two surprise search warrants of his office in Houston and his self-storage unit in Houston? We`re going to talk about what`s in those warrants.
But first, out to the lines. Robin from Florida, you have a question? Robin?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Hi, Mike.
BROOKS: How`re you doing?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you for taking my call.
BROOKS: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mike, I was just curious as to whether anyone had checked with the phone company to find out if there was, in fact, no phone, live phone at the mansion at the time Michael died.
BROOKS: You know, that`s a great question. And I know that — that`s one of the things I — as a former investigator, I can tell you, that would be one of the first things that they would do. Why wasn`t — why was there a delay in the call? Because when first responders got there, apparently he was cold. They said that the 911 calls we have, you know, they were doing CPR. And Dr. Murray — he didn`t take Michael and put him on the floor. He was doing it on the bed, which as a former first responder, I found that highly unusual, especially for a medical professional.
Back out to the lines. Karen from Florida.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello, Mike.
BROOKS: Hi, Karen.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One lady already answered one question. Now, I heard on another program right before Nancy that this doctor was now ready to file bankruptcy and he`s having money problems.
BROOKS: What do we know, Natisha, about his financial straits because after we`re going to talk about the — these warrants, there were notices from the Internal Revenue Service that were in his self-storage unit. What do we know about his finances?
LANCE: Right. We don`t know specific details about that, but those were some of the items that were seized from his storage unit. And as Ken Baker was talking about, he was apparently on the brink of some very financial — serious financial straits.
BROOKS: Ken, had he ever filed for bankruptcy? Do we know this for sure?
BAKER: No, to our knowledge, he hadn`t. But did he have some problems — some property that he did stand to lose if he didn`t get his financial house in order.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know what Michael thought of his father. You can see it in the will. He doesn`t name his father at all.
JOE JACKSON: They lean on me too hard about they`re saying that I beat Michael. That`s not true. You know where this beating started? The beating started in the slavery days when they used to beat the slaves. They used to torture them.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Joe has 5 boys there. And he was a black man working in the steel mill taking care of his family. And sometimes they call this strict discipline.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The psychological damage on Michael of the beatings he took with switches and belts and straps at the hands of his father.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It doesn`t matter whether Joe Jackson — well, he hit him with a belt. It wasn`t really a beating.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A beating is a beating.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We all at that time, the belt was used to discipline. It wasn`t used as an abusive weapon, okay? And my uncle and my mother disciplined us all.
JACKSON: A lot of people in America spank their kids. You know? They say they don`t, they`re lying. They`re lying. Michael was never beat by me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it was all the abuse that made him disregulated and traumatized and unable to solve (INAUDIBLE) without drugs.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can get over physical punishment a lot more readily than you can get over psychological punishment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROOKS: I`m Mike Brooks, in for Nancy Grace. Well, let`s break down exactly what was in the search warrants? Let`s start with this office.
Now we have Rolodex cards with FedEx information. Natisha, what could they looking for with this FedEx information possibly?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right. They could be looking for possible linkage from sending Propofol possibly to Michael Jackson in California. What we do know reportedly is that Dr. Conrad Murray was not licensed to be able to write prescriptions out of the state of California. So if he was obtaining this Propofol, possibly he was getting it in Houston and then shipping it to Michael Jackson in California.
BROOKS: Dr. Howard Oliver, former deputy medical examiner and forensic pathologist in Los Angeles, do you have to get a license to write prescriptions from state to state?
DR. HOWARD OLIVER, FORMER DEPUTY MEDICAL EXAMINER: No. The DEA license is good in all states. However, you have to have a California license to be — to prescribe here.
BROOKS: Got you. Also Dr. Oliver, don`t go away. Next on the list, pamphlets on a sleep center located in — on West Tidwell. Do you know anything about that sleep center?
OLIVER: Sleep centers are generally for the opposite problem Mr. Jackson would have had. Sleep centers are used for people with sleep apnea. It`s a place where you go to sleep; you`re filmed and watched by a crew. They determine how many times you suffer from apnea while trying to sleep at night.
BROOKS: Ken Baker from E! he`s executive editor for E!, do we know if Michael Jackson ever checked himself into or went to any kind of sleep centers at all?
KEN BAKER, EXECUTIVE EDITOR, E!: We don`t know that. But what we do know is that Michael Jackson did struggle with sleep. He told everyone.
I mean the nurse who talked to him four days, Cherilyn Lee, a nurse spoke to him four days before he died. He was begging her to supply him with Propofol or Diprivan so that he could sleep. He was begging her. He said he just couldn`t sleep. It was killing him.
And I think that he clearly had a problem with this. He was treating it. And we`re told by the way, we talked to experts. Propofol is a horrible way to get sleep because you don`t get a sound sleep. It knocks you out but you don`t get the benefits of the rejuvenation of a natural kind of sleep or even a sleep that you get with a sleep aid like Ambien. So whatever medical advice he was getting that this was a way to sleep, it was bad advice.
BROOKS: We do know that he had — he even traveled around with an anesthesiologist, Tom O`Neil, back in the early `90s. Did he not?
TOM O`NEIL, SENIOR EDITOR, “IN TOUCH WEEKLY”: Yes, he did. So we know that this problem goes way back. We also know that he asked some other doctors who have been speaking up lately for this.
So this is just — the sleep center, by the way, to finish your earlier question is connected to a doctor`s hospital which is where Dr. Murray Conrad worked. And that is something is in these subpoenas.
BROOKS: We`re going to talk about that in just a second. I want to get through the office and we`re going to go to the storage center.
So in the office, we have Yahoo! e-mails from a Stacy Howe. And who is, Natisha, Stacy Howe?
LANCE: As Tom O`Neil was saying earlier, Stacy Howe is someone who was the manager for Arnold Klein`s office back in California. So possibly investigators were trying to link these two doctors together, talking about the medication that they were giving to Michael Jackson.
BROOKS: Right. Now there is some other things that they — a Cricket phone receipt, a letter, some other thing that they did seize from the office including a forensic image of his business computer. And, again, we heard that the vials of the two drugs.
Now let`s move on to the storage unit. There is a lot of interesting things they found there. And one of them that we just — just hinted about was documents regarding an incomplete chart from Doctors Hospital and a suspension notice from Doctors Hospital.
Now Dr. Oliver, could he have been suspended for not filling the charts out properly?
OLIVER: Definitely he could have been suspended for not filling out. That`s common reason doctors are suspended from hospitals, for not keeping up their paperwork.
BROOKS: And could that be maybe some drugs that maybe were administered to some of the patients there?
OLIVER: It`s possible. Usually it`s for paperwork deficiencies.
BROOKS: Now he also had a medical board certificate that expired in August 31st of 2008. Now he was, if I`m not mistaken, a cardiologist. But he wasn`t an anesthesiologist. And Dr. Oliver, do we know if he was a board certified cardiologist?
OLIVER: I — I don`t know.
BROOKS: Now does it take a higher standard to be board certified?
OLIVER: Yes, it usually does. It — you`re all trained the same way to become board certified simply means you take a test after your residency and if you pass the test, you`re certified.
BROOKS: Do you have to keep up continuing medical education on your specialty after that to keep your certification?
OLIVER: All physicians have to keep up continuing medical education. And sometimes when you`re board certified you have to recertify after a particular period of time.
BROOKS: Interesting. So he — we talk about possible Propofol. He was with Michael Jackson at the time of his death. Didn`t give CPR the proper way, as far as I`m concerned, and he`s a cardiologist. Huh. Just – – I find that extremely interesting.
Now also seized were a computer hard drive from two different Samsung computers along with correspondence addressed to Stacy Howe. I don`t think this is the last we heard about the interaction between he, Stacy Howe and Dr. Klein.
But I want to move on to the family now. We heard that there was this — all this money, this $5 million that was found.
Now Jennifer Smetters (ph), family law attorney and child advocate, why would the family not get some of this money?
JENNIFER SMETTERS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: I believe they eventually will get some of the money. The question is what is their need right now for the funds? I think that`s what the court will eventually — they`ll evaluate that and give money out so that the kids` day to day expenses can be taken care of. But right now it may be a little premature to start doling out funds.
BROOKS: Let me go back out to Brian Oxman, former Jackson attorney and host of “Insight” News Radio KLAA. You`ve been very close to the family for quite some time, Brian. What are their financial straits right now, especially Katherine and the children?
BRIAN OXMAN, FORMER JACKSON ATTORNEY: They`re living just fine. They`re doing okay. There was a petition which was filed in the probate court for an allowance which is a very usual type of thing done for the family and for the beneficiaries under the will.
Michael always cared for his mother. When I look at how he cared for Katherine Jackson, I wish I could care for my mom in the very same manner. He took wonderful care of her. That`s a factor which the probate court will take into consideration. But it`s a usual very common thing which is done to get the family money because they`ve been cared for in the past.
BROOKS: Now what about Joe Jackson and the rest of the kids? We`ll talk about that when we come back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As you well know by now, there is little that is ordinary about the Michael Jackson story, including the custody hearing that was postponed…
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a battle between Jackson`s ex-wife and his mother. Maybe not. There`s word that his kids may want someone else to raise them.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But when the hearing does happen, will Rowe be there? And what about a system which normally places a premium on a biological parent when it comes to custody?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Legally speaking, she is the parent of the older two children. That is a matter of law.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You want to look at what`s in their best interest. They obviously have a relationship with Katherine. They have cousins, they have aunts, they have uncles. All of that will be taken into consideration as will most likely listening to the kids themselves. What do they want?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s word that Michael Jackson`s children may want their aunt Janet Jackson to raise them. “OK Magazine” is reporting that Janet Jackson reads to the children at night and they, quote, “melt in her arms when she walks into the house.”
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His will specifically says Katherine Jackson. Now we all think Janet Jackson is so close to them. But she actually lives on the other side of the country and rarely sees them.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I strongly urge California child welfare to step in and get these children a proper stable environment ASAP. Because the way things are going right now, it`s very unclear, very shady and a lot of greed around the Jackson and Rowe camp.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROOKS: I`m Mike Brooks in for Nancy Grace.
Well, the investigation intensifies and so does the battle over possible money. Now we`re hearing that the executors now have found $5 million. Natisha, where is this money coming from?
LANCE: This is from the petition that they were asking for the allowance for the children as well as for Katherine Jackson. This $5.5 million was obtained from former financial advisors of Michael Jackson. It is cash and it`s now in the hands of the executors of the estate.
BROOKS: Now, I want to go back out to Jennifer Smetters, she`s a family law attorney and child advocate. Jennifer, how are they going to split this money up? Or what will they do with this money until they decide who is going to get what?
SMETTERS: Right now what the court will look at are what are the needs of kids? What are the needs of the caregivers of the children? This money should not be treated as a windfall. It won`t be treated as windfall to the Jackson family. The judge is going to dole out money on an as- needed basis until the estate is looked at and completed and a distribution plan is ultimately made.
BROOKS: Now I know there is a hearing August 3rd. They`re going to take up all different kinds of — dealing with custody and the kids. Jennifer, who is representing the kids? Should they have their own attorney separate from the estate?
SMETTERS: They should absolutely have their own attorney. These children are old enough to have a representative in court looking after what is in the best interest of those kids. I`m afraid that if the attorney of the estate is speaking on behalf of the children that it is going to be something that the Jackson camp wants to put out there as opposed to really what is in the hearts and minds of those children.
These children need potentially to have an advocate on their own behalf in the courtroom and have somebody that they can have some confidential and privilege discussions with so that their hearts can really come out and the court can look after what it is that they need at this time.
BROOKS: I want to go out to noted psychologist Lillian Glass, author of “I know what you`re thinking.” And we need your help on this one, Lillian. What are these kids going through right now?
You know, we`ve heard that kids would rather be with Janet. And then TMZ is reporting some things now that maybe Rebbie Jackson raise the children because Katherine is too old. What are these kids going through now?
LILLIAN GLASS, PSYCHOLOGIST: They`re going through a lot. They love their father. And you just heard that heart-wrenching speech that little Paris gave and that spoke volumes.
BROOKS: Tore your heart out.
GLASS: Yes. And they`re going through so much. And they need a family that`s stable, that loves them, that gives them affection, that gives them tenderness. And that`s what the Jackson family can do for them.
BROOKS: I want to go back out to Brian Oxman, former Jackson family attorney. Brian, you know the family better than anyone we with have on the show tonight. What do you think the kids want or have they ever told you who they want to be with?
OXMAN: The children have never expressed any kind of desire for one family or another except that they love Katherine Jackson. They just adore her.
And what you saw at the memorial is something that most people never really knew before and that is the dominance of the Jackson women. You had Rebbie Jackson, Janet Jackson and LaToya Jackson; they are very powerful personalities. They dominate this family. And nobody really knew that before until we saw it at the memorial.
They love the whole women in this family. It`s just really something that is amazing. And they`re doted upon, particularly LaToya likes to have a big say in what they do. I don`t think that they`re lacking for any kind of care.
BROOKS: You know, it just tore your heart out when you saw Paris there during the memorial service. You know, she went to grab that microphone, everybody trying to adjust the mike. And then after that, just in tears. It tore my heart out.
I want to go back out to Dan Horowitz. On August 3rd, what is going to be discussed? And will we hear anything; find out anything specifically after the hearing?
DAN HOROWITZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think, so Mike. I think there`s a battle brewing over money. And, you know, Brian is a great advocate for the family. He`s putting the women in the forefront to take your attention and my attention away from Joe Jackson who is an abusive man and the kids should not be with him. I think we`ll see a lot of that fight going on that day.
BROOKS: I think you`re right. It`s going to be a lot going on August 3rd. Join us right here. We`ll be talking about it at length on August 3rd.
And now: CNN heroes.
ANDREA IVORY, NOMINEE, CNN HEROES: In 2004, I was diagnosed with breast cancer. Initially, there`s shock. But I realized how blessed I was to have health insurance. It made me think about all the women who didn`t have health insurance. I wanted to make a difference in their lives.
I`m Andrea Ivory. And I`m fighting breast cancer in South Florida one household at a time.
The Florida Breast Health Initiative is an outreach organization. We`re targeting working class people who are going to make a difference and we`re going to save some lives.
We have a “take it to the streets” approach. We feel like little pixies spreading breast cancer awareness.
We target women that are 35 years or older and make appointments on the spot for free mammograms.
Bringing the mobile mammography vans into the neighborhood is one of the most important facets of the work that we do. We provide a service that is so needed.
I know I`m saving lives.
I was saved from breast cancer to serve other woman. Every time I knock on the door is another opportunity to save a life.
BROOKS: And now, a look back at the rest of the stories making headlines this is week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HLN ANCHOR: In the last hours, the DEA joins forces with the LAPD and Houston police in a surprise raid on Michael Jackson`s live-in doctor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That search warrant saying in it that they were looking for materials that would back up, basically, a possible — possible case of manslaughter against Murray.
GRACE: What the family — what this family — what the charges are they are leveling against this private live-in doctor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are saying that they suspect foul play, that this was murder.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Michael Jackson has not been buried yet. The family is still…
GRACE: What is it now — 26 or 27 days since he`s been dead?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s right. The family is still feuding over this. Someone in that Neverland, others — family members want him to be buried at Forest Lawn.
GRACE: Did you ever think you`d be in a fight where you got a whole fleet of defense attorneys trying their best to keep you muzzled?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The testimony that would be forthcoming from us which would be 180 degrees out of focus with what they have from law enforcement, as far as the people of law enforcement.
GRACE: What is their excuse for a delay in the check trial?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They say they need to have it — they need to have time to study for the murder case, that it takes a lot of resources, a lot of time, a lot of money.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ESPN reporter, Erin Andrews was secretly videotaped in the privacy of her own hotel room. The illegally-recorded video then posted on the Internet for millions to see.
GRACE: And what we`re hearing is some freak, some perv, is looking through the peephole.
BROOKS: Tonight, let`s stop to remember army Corporal Gavin Neighbor, 20, from Somerset, Ohio, from a long line of military deaths who is awarded the Bronze Star and Purple Heart. He dreamed of joining the elite army rangers and getting married after returning from Iraq.
He leaves behind mom Cathy and step-dad Willy and fiance Rachel. Gavin Neighbor, a true American hero.
Thank you to all our guests and to you at home for being with us.
See you tomorrow night 8:00 p.m. sharp, Eastern. Until then, stay safe.